DunGenes.org
a Hippo-Logistics web

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"Under-Duns"

Horses that (sometimes) have dun (like?) markings - and whether they're duns or not

Introduction:

It's nice when we have all of "the requirements" to declare a horse a dun: a sharp dorsal stripe, clearly visible leg markings, other (neck, shoulders, ears, face, back) dun markings, and similarly-marked parents and offspring.

But what of those with some of those "requirements" missing? A test is now available, but no one with a questionable dun has used it, that we can find!

There are many, many horses in the "doubtful area" of dun-like markings:

	horses with a sharp dorsal stripe but no visible markings on the legs
	horses with markings, when there are no visible markings on either parent
	horses with no visible markings, yet which beget those with them
	horses born with markings that fade with age
	horses with one or many dun markings that belong to breeds wherein dun is not believed to exist
	horses that are graying (see Iberian section, below)
	horses that are so dark all over that the markings are not completely discernable as being a darker color, but more of a difference in texture or nap
	horses whose markings come and go with the seasons or different ages
	palominos or offspring of palominos in whose registry dun is a disqualification
	extremely light horses where dun markings, if extant, would amount to "white on white" (see OSO X ["Blue"], just below, or button at right.)
	horses with dun markings that are also sooty in places (some believe the two cannot co-exist)

If you have some related pictures you'd like to share, please send them to the "dungenes" list or to bak@one.net . Please be sure to explain your pictures' purpose in your email. Otherwise I won't know on which web site or which page to use it, or regarding what question you're sending it. Got too many things going on! Thank you.

Newest entry: The dun-marked Arabian, Sage On Bey

	This puzzle has been solved. "Blue" is an APHA/AQHA cremello dun stallion, now residing in Denmark, who has no visible dun markings. His sire was said not to have any, either, but that turned out to be a misunderstanding. Blue has sired dun foals and has dun in his pedigree. More about him here. (Or use button at right.)
	NEW! These pictures were provided by Carolyn Shepard, who is positive these cannot be dun horses, so they have not been tested. Added to this page 7/24/2008.
	Arabian, LL Amaretto, registered bay; his owner says he is colored like a dun. "He was lighter in color as a six year old. He is almost black now so it may be hard to see his dun factor". Owned by Janet, Diamond Branch QH's.
	Gayle Norman had the honor of presenting us with the first photo we displayed on this page. Here is a black Arabian mare, who turned out this way one year. Gayle thinks it's the unusual amount of sunshine & warmth they've had. She says the stripe is sharp-edged (click small picture to see bigger one) and much more visible in person.
	Gayle also sent us this picture of a black Arabian foal who later turned gray. This begins to address the phenomenon of many horses developing dun markings as they turn gray.
	This purebred Arabian foal also belongs to Gayle Norman. Many Arabian foals have strong dun markings at birth, and a few keep them throughout their lives!
	These three pics are of a Morgan stallion who lives in Rising Sun, IN with Ray Taylor and Linda Scott. He was presented to me as a bay, but he had such a beautiful dorsal stripe I just had to take these pictures. I should have taken more of his stripe, this one doesn't show it very well. It goes the whole length of his back and is very sharp-edged.
	Vanzi Moonlit Bronze, aka "Dusty", a Champagne QH of My Skip Vanzi (gold dun) breeding.
	This is Glass Eyed Tari, a seal based champagne ("sable") filly bred by Mary Haas.
	Amanda Boyle's purebred Arabian mare, Wystyrea, who is turning gray. Look at the leg marking in the picture at left!

Some foals have temporary or partial "dun markings"

Yet they belong to breeds where the pattern is unheard of in adult horses!

Arabian foal, Wellwisher, bred by Katy Bowen-Brazell, with dorsal, leg , shoulder, and face markings. Dun is unknown in adult Arabian horses, yet many are born like this.

PLEASE SEND ME OTHER EXAMPLES LIKE THIS, especially the blacks that are born looking grulla. Thanks!

Goldie, a Thoroughbred buckskin filly bred by Julia Lord in Indiana. Dun is unknown in adult Thoroughbreds. We are awaiting the disappearance of her dorsal stripe; she still had it, at age two. She has not been tested.

The pics below are also of Goldie:

Quite a change, eh? Lends some credibility to the theory that dun-type markings can be related to sootiness...in foals or otherwise.

This picture is from Hardy Oelke's book, Born Survivors on the Eve of Extinction. It's a purebred Lusitano foal. Some believe this foal grew up to be non-dun, since "there are no dun Lusitanos"; but that view is fading fast.

These photos are from a maturing THOROUGHBRED filly! She's owned by Carolyn Shepard of Rancho No Robles.

(Mary) Annita Blake wrote:

"Here is Sissy the dun Appaloosa's seal brown filly. She has stripes on the rear legs well above the hocks. Pictured a few hours old... Annita" www.wolfrunranch.com

Nancy Nard of Ragtime Morgans sent these pics of :

"a smoky black colt I had born last year who expressed every dun factor in the book- and leg bars to die for- who now is so dark it will take a test to prove/disprove."

Iberian duns:

An Over-simplified Overview

Of course, the Sorraia and related breeds/crosses have many, if not all, undisputed duns.

Portuguese-bred: There are some undisputed duns in the Lusitano breed. Others are being studied.

Spanish-bred: This list/website recognizes at least one Andalusian dun. He resides in New Zealand.

In addition to these, it seems that most other Iberian horses with markings usually accepted as Dun either:

	are, or may be, turning gray
	are suspected to be black or smoky black (with one cream gene) and their markings are at least partially obscured by the dark coloring of the surrounding areas.

Some believe that the gray gene itself is causing the dun markings in the first case, and that something like nap or hair texture is causing them in the second case.

Puzzles

To join our "dungenes" discussion and photo-sharing email group, click HERE.

DunGenes.org a Hippo-Logistics web

"Under-Duns"

Horses that (sometimes) have dun (like?) markings - and whether they're duns or not

Introduction:

It's nice when we have all of "the requirements" to declare a horse a dun: a sharp dorsal stripe, clearly visible leg markings, other (neck, shoulders, ears, face, back) dun markings, and similarly-marked parents and offspring.

But what of those with some of those "requirements" missing? A test is now available, but no one with a questionable dun has used it, that we can find!

There are many, many horses in the "doubtful area" of dun-like markings:

horses with a sharp dorsal stripe but no visible markings on the legs

horses with markings, when there are no visible markings on either parent

horses with no visible markings, yet which beget those with them

horses born with markings that fade with age

horses with one or many dun markings that belong to breeds wherein dun is not believed to exist

horses that are graying (see Iberian section, below)

horses that are so dark all over that the markings are not completely discernable as being a darker color, but more of a difference in texture or nap

horses whose markings come and go with the seasons or different ages

palominos or offspring of palominos in whose registry dun is a disqualification

extremely light horses where dun markings, if extant, would amount to "white on white" (see OSO X ["Blue"], just below, or button at right.)

horses with dun markings that are also sooty in places (some believe the two cannot co-exist)

Newest entry: The dun-marked Arabian, Sage On Bey

NEW! These pictures were provided by Carolyn Shepard, who is positive these cannot be dun horses, so they have not been tested. Added to this page 7/24/2008.

Arabian, LL Amaretto, registered bay; his owner says he is colored like a dun. "He was lighter in color as a six year old. He is almost black now so it may be hard to see his dun factor". Owned by Janet, Diamond Branch QH's.

Gayle also sent us this picture of a black Arabian foal who later turned gray. This begins to address the phenomenon of many horses developing dun markings as they turn gray.

This purebred Arabian foal also belongs to Gayle Norman. Many Arabian foals have strong dun markings at birth, and a few keep them throughout their lives!

Vanzi Moonlit Bronze, aka "Dusty", a Champagne QH of My Skip Vanzi (gold dun) breeding.

This is Glass Eyed Tari, a seal based champagne ("sable") filly bred by Mary Haas.

Amanda Boyle's purebred Arabian mare, Wystyrea, who is turning gray. Look at the leg marking in the picture at left!

Some foals have temporary or partial "dun markings"

Arabian foal, Wellwisher, bred by Katy Bowen-Brazell, with dorsal, leg , shoulder, and face markings. Dun is unknown in adult Arabian horses, yet many are born like this.

PLEASE SEND ME OTHER EXAMPLES LIKE THIS, especially the blacks that are born looking grulla. Thanks!

Goldie, a Thoroughbred buckskin filly bred by Julia Lord in Indiana. Dun is unknown in adult Thoroughbreds. We are awaiting the disappearance of her dorsal stripe; she still had it, at age two. She has not been tested.

The pics below are also of Goldie:

Quite a change, eh? Lends some credibility to the theory that dun-type markings can be related to sootiness...in foals or otherwise.

This picture is from Hardy Oelke's book, Born Survivors on the Eve of Extinction. It's a purebred Lusitano foal. Some believe this foal grew up to be non-dun, since "there are no dun Lusitanos"; but that view is fading fast.

These photos are from a maturing THOROUGHBRED filly! She's owned by Carolyn Shepard of Rancho No Robles.

(Mary) Annita Blake wrote:

"Here is Sissy the dun Appaloosa's seal brown filly. She has stripes on the rear legs well above the hocks. Pictured a few hours old... Annita" www.wolfrunranch.com

Nancy Nard of Ragtime Morgans sent these pics of :

"a smoky black colt I had born last year who expressed every dun factor in the book- and leg bars to die for- who now is so dark it will take a test to prove/disprove."